Wizards Armageddon + other spells

[5starstore]

Was just messing about in pvp and i realise this spell was nerfed a very long time ago, but god dam was it needed to nerf it that bad?

With very high MC kit , casting it on a noob with pretty poor kit , was only hitting ~1k.

Now im not asking for a massive buff to make this spell the new COP , but maybe a lil something ?

Also Ignite , this needs to be added back into pvp make the fights so much more diverse for wizzies rather than the just slow-cop-slow-cop ,

And u kno what im gunna say .... REPENT IN PVP !

Wars hitting 3k+ tdbs btw , let me repent em

 

[vexus]

Was just messing about in pvp and i realise this spell was nerfed a very long time ago, but god dam was it needed to nerf it that bad?

With very high MC kit , casting it on a noob with pretty poor kit , was only hitting ~1k.

Now im not asking for a massive buff to make this spell the new COP , but maybe a lil something ?

Also Ignite , this needs to be added back into pvp make the fights so much more diverse for wizzies rather than the just slow-cop-slow-cop ,

And u kno what im gunna say .... REPENT IN PVP !

Wars hitting 3k+ tdbs btw , let me repent em

totally agree with this thread. I remember Armageddon was like 500/1k GG book in GameShop and to nerf it at this level it’s sad. What 5star he suggested to nerf it back up abit would be nice.

 

[Alsiral]

100% go against the grain of every wizz here and say, nerf cop a bit and up some other spells inc Armageddon

And before wizzies go nuts, I’m thinking like a 10% nerf of cop for 20-25% increase in 2 other spells

 

[C289]

I don't think repent is the answer anymore. I think Taos need some sort of DD buff or PDR buff. I got 1 hit by a 148 the other day. I check his kit in town and it's shit. Under 900DC. Taos need to be able to take a few hits to make PvP more fun

 

[Scorpian]

I don't recall the specific changes you refer to but I know the skill has had a few changes made over the years.

This probably has more to do with skill progression and scaling than anything. Generally speaking skills are most effective when they first reach level 3 and then their additional damage becomes a smaller percentage of overall damage.

This is why we need to regularly revisit and revamp skills. Can only apologise for taking so long to do this but it is certainly on the cards!

 

[zad48231]

I don't recall the specific changes you refer to but I know the skill has had a few changes made over the years.

This probably has more to do with skill progression and scaling than anything. Generally speaking skills are most effective when they first reach level 3 and then their additional damage becomes a smaller percentage of overall damage.

This is why we need to regularly revisit and revamp skills. Can only apologise for taking so long to do this but it is certainly on the cards!

With full MC kit on I can do more damage with fireball than I do with armageddon, something definitely dodgy with the scaling somewhere lol

 

[Scorpian]

With full MC kit on I can do more damage with fireball than I do with armageddon, something definitely dodgy with the scaling somewhere lol

Against undead? Arma is weak against undead but shouldn't be the case against players and living monsters. Each of the three Armageddon hits should do more than Fireball from looking at the database.

 

[5starstore]

can confirm his fireball was hitting me for 500+ every hit , and arma was doing between 300-500 each hit.

 

[Scorpian]

But you probably have Fire and Ice resistance.

 

[5starstore]

me n zade tested it on my poorly kitted wiz and 5star , done roughly the same damage to both of us

 

[shadow]

Gm can we a testing NPC where its defence is a fixed amount? like ac 200, amc 200, fire resist 50%, ice resist 50% and so on.. i think that be very helpful in us figuring out whats what with different spells.. current testing npc has no defence at all

 

[ditoal]

Was just messing about in pvp and i realise this spell was nerfed a very long time ago, but god dam was it needed to nerf it that bad?

With very high MC kit , casting it on a noob with pretty poor kit , was only hitting ~1k.

Now im not asking for a massive buff to make this spell the new COP , but maybe a lil something ?

Also Ignite , this needs to be added back into pvp make the fights so much more diverse for wizzies rather than the just slow-cop-slow-cop ,

And u kno what im gunna say .... REPENT IN PVP !

Wars hitting 3k+ tdbs btw , let me repent em

Agree with all of this as was there for a mini test me a cizz did and i had nb fire and ice Arma has always been shit since like 2 years ago or something...

Ignite was a cool little trick and agree it needs to come back to pvp

Agree with Tao's having repent if it can be purified to be remove its a fair enough skill

100% go against the grain of every wizz here and say, nerf cop a bit and up some other spells inc Armageddon

And before wizzies go nuts, I’m thinking like a 10% nerf of cop for 20-25% increase in 2 other spells

Also play fully as a wiz and fully agree a nerf to cop of even 15% would probably be sufficient if your going to look at increasing the only other two highest level range attacks which work in pvp as they suck balls as said above^^

Wizs should never of got such a OP close range attack imo as the idea of this been the only way to inflict alot of damage in pvp sucks if i wanted to play a toe for toe class I would of gone warrior. Wiz's can inflict reasonable amount of damage with FG/FB/Inf/Blaze etc having to rely on using cop to inflict the most damage isn't right.

 

[5starstore]

Gm can we a testing NPC where its defence is a fixed amount? like ac 200, amc 200, fire resist 50%, ice resist 50% and so on.. i think that be very helpful in us figuring out whats what with different spells.. current testing npc has no defence at all

id love to have like a test area where we had the ability to customize and test different kits/spells/resistances n other stuff

 

[deanouk23]

All 3 classes dps needs looking at.

Right now dc is at a point that flaming and blazing sword stacks allows 150 warriors to kill 178 taos in a split second. Taos need pdr on shield 25% or so.

You can't simply say wiz have easy leveling so should suffer pvp wise. Because by this logic warriors have it easy boss wise so should suffer pvp wise too. If we had wiz 20 levels higher than warriors I'd agree with this logic but we got a level cap.

Introduction of helms pretty much killed mc wiz. Gone are the days a wiz could lay inferno and run in it until a warrior was low enough to cop. As we now have helms which ignore this. Frost guards vs our ice spells. Then to top it off res now without really building any kit is high.

Runic buff 10%
Tao buff 20-25%
Cele/hc/crystal standard 7% -helm and ring for rev
Frost/fire guard 10%

52% with minimal effort. Add a couple of 5-10% items into this quickly damage falls off.

Fire guards should be pve not pvp.

Any changes need to be done with considerable testing.

People talk alot about pdr and how wiz get 60% from shield. My question is this what's the difference with pdr and fire res? Base kit reduces warrior damage by 60% but we have 1/3 the hp. 50% fire res counters a wiz to a 50% damage reduction and 3x the health with base kit and a tao buff. So what's the difference?

It's not as simple as changing 1 spell or 1 stat to balance the server, extensive testing of all classes and all builds needs to be done. Dps needs balancing across all 3 classes.

Wiz the easiest class to counter because we only really have cop, everything else can be out healed by taos or warriors can just out pot your ranged damage.

Warriors shouldn't have it all. Shouldn't be running around doing 20k+ damage in 4 hits while other classes take a minute to deal the same damage.

 

[zad48231]

All 3 classes dps needs looking at.

Right now dc is at a point that flaming and blazing sword stacks allows 150 warriors to kill 178 taos in a split second. Taos need pdr on shield 25% or so.

You can't simply say wiz have easy leveling so should suffer pvp wise. Because by this logic warriors have it easy boss wise so should suffer pvp wise too. If we had wiz 20 levels higher than warriors I'd agree with this logic but we got a level cap.

Introduction of helms pretty much killed mc wiz. Gone are the days a wiz could lay inferno and run in it until a warrior was low enough to cop. As we now have helms which ignore this. Frost guards vs our ice spells. Then to top it off res now without really building any kit is high.

Runic buff 10%
Tao buff 20-25%
Cele/hc/crystal standard 7% -helm and ring for rev
Frost/fire guard 10%

52% with minimal effort. Add a couple of 5-10% items into this quickly damage falls off.

Fire guards should be pve not pvp.

Any changes need to be done with considerable testing.

People talk alot about pdr and how wiz get 60% from shield. My question is this what's the difference with pdr and fire res? Base kit reduces warrior damage by 60% but we have 1/3 the hp. 50% fire res counters a wiz to a 50% damage reduction and 3x the health with base kit and a tao buff. So what's the difference?

It's not as simple as changing 1 spell or 1 stat to balance the server, extensive testing of all classes and all builds needs to be done. Dps needs balancing across all 3 classes.

Wiz the easiest class to counter because we only really have cop, everything else can be out healed by taos or warriors can just out pot your ranged damage.

Warriors shouldn't have it all. Shouldn't be running around doing 20k+ damage in 4 hits while other classes take a minute to deal the same damage.

I mostly agree with this. For a wiz, full attack mode doesn't exist any more, even at 2000 MC a warrior 10 levels below me can just spam HP pots and out-regen any damage I do, unless they are stupid enough to be standing still in my FG/FB and letting me COP them. So there's literally no point in having damage kit, that's why I go full defence and try to "out-survive" instead of "out-damage". I accept I won't be able to hurt anyone, so might as well make it so they can't hurt me either.

However, the game has evolved towards all classes being more defensive, as everyone was 1 shotting everyone at one point and it was getting silly, pvp was more about who got the lucky first hit rather than anything to do with skill. I think it's a good thing that it's become a bit more tactical, wizards now focus on PDR and warriors now focus on HPR, and that's made fights last a lot longer, which is what people wanted. The problem we have though is that warriors can get high HPR without sacrificing much damage, whereas wizards lose a LOT of damage by having to stack PDR and HP. Wait for the warriors to cry about bloodstorm, but that only works with high MC, in defensive kit bloodstorm is barely better than using a hp pot.

Don't even get me started on taos. Have to go to fights now with a bag full of antidotes because a noob tao 20 levels below me blindly chucks a poison gas and that's me out the game might as well just TT. Waaaaay overpowered that.

I guess if I was going to change 1 thing I'd make it that wizards were actually able to kill bosses again, our DPS is just way too low. I struggle to find the motivation to make use of my heroes league buff and kill bosses on wizard because my warrior 19 levels lower can kill most stuff in half the time. The sensible option for me would be to abandon wiz and just level my warrior up, but I enjoy wiz more so would rather just stick with it if possible.

 

[deanouk23]

Pretty much what zade said. Wiz damage has been falling of dramatically for a long time. Granted static damage from frozen ground and frost bite with cop. Does considerable damage. Its static and easy to avoid.

I'll be completely honest depending if I'm on wiz war or tao my view changes completely.

Which is why I said the answer is not as simple as changing 1 stat/spell. It's going to be extremely difficult to balance. Killing one class while "we see how it goes" isn't the right approach.

Personally would love to see a test server.

I'm sure depending on which class we use will cloud judgement on what we would all change. But the fact remains that opinions are just down to experience. Experience is kit dependent. Hence the need to thoroughly test everything to create accurate results. The last set of changes to warrior wasn't needed and only increased what was already a significant gap between them and other classes.

 

[5starstore]

All 3 classes dps needs looking at.

Right now dc is at a point that flaming and blazing sword stacks allows 150 warriors to kill 178 taos in a split second. Taos need pdr on shield 25% or so.

You can't simply say wiz have easy leveling so should suffer pvp wise. Because by this logic warriors have it easy boss wise so should suffer pvp wise too. If we had wiz 20 levels higher than warriors I'd agree with this logic but we got a level cap.

Introduction of helms pretty much killed mc wiz. Gone are the days a wiz could lay inferno and run in it until a warrior was low enough to cop. As we now have helms which ignore this. Frost guards vs our ice spells. Then to top it off res now without really building any kit is high.

Runic buff 10%
Tao buff 20-25%
Cele/hc/crystal standard 7% -helm and ring for rev
Frost/fire guard 10%

52% with minimal effort. Add a couple of 5-10% items into this quickly damage falls off.

Fire guards should be pve not pvp.

Any changes need to be done with considerable testing.

People talk alot about pdr and how wiz get 60% from shield. My question is this what's the difference with pdr and fire res? Base kit reduces warrior damage by 60% but we have 1/3 the hp. 50% fire res counters a wiz to a 50% damage reduction and 3x the health with base kit and a tao buff. So what's the difference?

It's not as simple as changing 1 spell or 1 stat to balance the server, extensive testing of all classes and all builds needs to be done. Dps needs balancing across all 3 classes.

Wiz the easiest class to counter because we only really have cop, everything else can be out healed by taos or warriors can just out pot your ranged damage.

Warriors shouldn't have it all. Shouldn't be running around doing 20k+ damage in 4 hits while other classes take a minute to deal the same damage.

agreed with what ur saying but i do feel like revamping n revisiting old skills over time is'nt a bad idea , ya never know if a lightning dmg rework could be in the mix and then that becoming the next element wizzies go for making firegaurds less usefull.

Fire res does nerf a majority of wizz spell arsenal but it doesnt completely nullify it and u got plenty of skills to use its just that people choose not to. Which is why i think it would be a gd idea to look at some of the scaling of these unused spells to have some variety rather than just cop wizzies

- - - Updated - - -

also dont sleep on Ignite and Repent they need to be brought back

 

[deanouk23]

agreed with what ur saying but i do feel like revamping n revisiting old skills over time is'nt a bad idea , ya never know if a lightning dmg rework could be in the mix and then that becoming the next element wizzies go for making firegaurds less usefull.

Fire res does nerf a majority of wizz spell arsenal but it doesnt completely nullify it and u got plenty of skills to use its just that people choose not to. Which is why i think it would be a gd idea to look at some of the scaling of these unused spells to have some variety rather than just cop wizzies

- - - Updated - - -

also dont sleep on Ignite and Repent they need to be brought back

Im not against re-working spells, I'd like warriors brought in line with wiz and tao dps wise.

 

[zad48231]

Im not against re-working spells, I'd like warriors brought in line with wiz and tao dps wise.

dps is a mess

I just killed naga champ on my warrior with 1222 DC and zero pets and it took 56 seconds, then killed on my wiz with 1699 mc and it took 2min and 4secs. More than double the time. Exactly the same situation with all mid-level bosses, stuff like 4tail, sky, biles etc. simply take far too long on wiz to be worth going to. Absolute nonsense.

 

[Alsiral]

dps is a mess

I just killed naga champ on my warrior with 1222 DC and zero pets and it took 56 seconds, then killed on my wiz with 1699 mc and it took 2min and 4secs. More than double the time. Exactly the same situation with all mid-level bosses, stuff like 4tail, sky, biles etc. simply take far too long on wiz to be worth going to. Absolute nonsense.

Would be interesting to see the time of wiz kill with set of hulks. If your not comparing using a full set of skills available then what’s the point?